Wilse argues that the North has become rich while the South has become poor, and it has grown "arrogant toward the South." Although it is not common for a woman to jump into male conversations about politics, Ellen speaks up, reminding Wilse that there are slaves in the South who are "downtrodden" at which Wilse says that the South just wants to be left alone without any intervention. Tom is beginning to get angry at Wilse's words, and John once again brings up the issue of immorality of slavery. Wilse says that there has been slavery from the very beginning--from the founding of the nation. He also adds that even if slaves were freed, no northern white abolitionists would do anything to help them. The difference in the skin colors would not be forgotten. I think the South needed to be changed because of their use of slavery.